Podcast Transcript
John Horton:
Welcome on the health Essentials Podcast. This is John Horton, your host. Today, we’ll discuss how the use of smartphones is a major discomfort for many. The constant glance at the screen can take a shockingly large impact for our bodies. It’s not just a single glance that causes it however, it’s the cumulative effect of lowering our eyes for on average for 4 1/2 hours each day to look at messages, read news, or check the latest gossip on social media. The movement could eventually lead to an injury to the neck that is known as neck pain caused by technology. What can you do to avoid the pain and aches that you don’t want to experience? To learn more, we placed an appointment with chiropractor Andrew Bang, one of the many reputable professionals in the Cleveland Clinic who pop into our weekly podcast to provide tips to lead a more healthy life. Let’s take a look at what he’s got to have to say.
Doctor. Bang, thank you so much for being with us once more. It’s always a great day when I get to see you in the schedule of interviews.
Dr. Bang:
Thanks, John. Yes I adore it. We’ve been through a lot in the past don’t you think?
John Horton:
There is definitely. Today, we’re going to talk about neck techs, and I’m sure that you’re the chiropractor within you is a little bit more active, and when you stroll around and notice everyone on their phones, you want to grab them all and say to them and say, “No, stop it!! Are you experiencing this frequently?
Dr. Bang:
Of course. My children will likely undergo many sessions of counseling, because I’ve nagged them until they’re dead. Hey I’m looking up and stop it. We had to alter my son’s gaming set-up so that it was straight at his laptop. That’s right I’m a stickler.
John Horton:
That’s the reason you’re here. I’m sure for many users, it’s difficult to look at our phones and believe that it’s a device that could cause injury. What’s happening? What is the impact on you?
Dr. Bang:
Okay, I’m not able to claim any the credit. Also I’m it’s Dr. Kenneth Hansraj, he’s an neurosurgeon from New York Spine Surgery. He carried out this fascinating study that looked at stressors in cervical spine. The real reason behind his theory was”If I must join a patient who has suffered trauma What happens? Does it matter if fuse them straight up and down or bent? Does it matter? The doctor has uncovered some really cool numbers that have allowed me to convey this message to my patients. Consider your head as an oversized bowling ball. It’s that is, a 10- to 12-pounder. Okay, that’s a lot of weight, but is it? You’ve bowled before was it, John?
John Horton:
Your head really is this heavy? It’s between 10 and 12 pounds?
Dr. Bang:
Maybe you’ll get 12 because you’re smart however for us, it’s 10 t0 12 pounds. However, as the ball is moved forward, flexing or moving away towards your back, it becomes heavier. It goes between 10 and 12 pounds. And if you can go to fifteen degrees of deflexion as you would go down a bit the weight is now 27 pounds.
John Horton:
Wow.
Dr. Bang:
Yeah. More than double right? This is like an insanely fast rise in weight. It’s not like when you’re looking at your phone. There’s more than just 15 degs of extension. You’re doing more like 30, probably. When you’re facing 30 degrees in the forward direction, there’s 40 pounds of pressure over your neck, and joints. And it goes up. If you’re sitting on the lap of your chair, at around 60 degrees, it’s 60 pounds of stress on your shoulders and neck. It’s crazy. For some, it’s the equivalent of half their body weight or 1/3 percent of bodyweight.
John Horton:
It’s mind-blowing. It’s amazing how much information you’re throwing into the mix. Now my head’s getting even heavier!
Dr. Bang:
So next time you go bowling, listeners use that bowling ball, and observe how much harder it gets the farther you distance the bowling ball away from you. Also, notice the more weightier it’s perceived. That’s the thing happening to your shoulders and neck. You look down for a moment or two at something, not a problem. However, if you continue to do this for a long duration of time while watching this amazing TikTok or playing something from YouTube or you’re reading an lengthy email,, this is where the problem is revealed. The injuries begin occurring in your neck and the muscles that surround it. there.
John Horton:
Which part of it is hurting? Do you think it is just the shoulders or neck? How far does it extend? In other words Where is all this force?
Dr. Bang:
The force, literally can be seen clinically in the lower cervical vertebrae. We are blessed with seven vertebrae in the cervical region. They discover that the largest, the space, is C5 and 6. the next most popular area is C6 and 7. Between those two segments there’s a jelly disk between each of them and those two are the ones that we see most frequently deteriorating or disintegrating inside the cervical spine due to the forward-facing head position. You can clearly see the signs of this. The problem is that when you’re engaged in the motion of looking downwards, that’s not when you feel discomfort. You’re typically too absorbed in the things you’re looking at that you don’t feel the signs of neck pain until a bit later. It’s sort of like a cumulative impact.
It’s as if, you’ll only spend a couple of minutes gazing down, nothing to worry about. Then, you continue doing it throughout the day, and then by the time you’re done, when you’ve spent between 3-4 hours with your phone, tablet or computer, you can know, anything in which your head is pointing forward, you’ve have issues. You’ve experienced pain, stiffness, tightness and that is what leads to chronic ailments of neck joint arthritis. There is an extra layer of bone that is that is growing into your joint called osteophytes. The joint is degenerated and there are jelly discs within. You’ve overstretched the muscles and tendons that are causing tendonitis. This is like an earthquake you didn’t expect but unfortunately.
John Horton:
Oh, man. What is the feeling of a tech neck? Since, as you mentioned it’s not something you can do you, for instance, if you slip on your toe, and then you recognize that you’ve injured yourself. Tech neck is something that’s likely to happen later however, what are the indicators that you may think, I’ve need to be more aware of the things I’m doing?
Dr. Bang:
I like this. The first thing to do is when you truly be into the present moment you’ll be feeling it right now. Therefore I’m not going guide you through this. Well, yes. Let’s go ahead and do this, John.
John Horton:
We’ll walk you through it.
Dr. Bang:
John I’ll tell you what you have to do. I’d like you to imagine to be reading this fantastic text message. Look down, literally on your lap. Let’s imagine you’re working and you’re doing hilarious YouTube thing that you’re expected to read, and you’re trying to conceal it.
John Horton:
I know you too.
Dr. Bang:
Now, you’re on your lap, and you can feel the head’s weight is it’s about 60 pounds. You can feel it, are you feeling tension in your muscles?
John Horton:
You can feel right here right here in this area in the back in your neck similar to in the area where it’s coming into your shoulders. It’s easy to feel the tension and maybe a little pull.
Dr. Bang:
So, for those of us it can extend to the point of reaching into your back, and you’ll begin to feel the pull. Because those muscles, including the trapezius and splenius capitis, all the ones that support your head and hold it upright they’re being pulled. And, depending on the individual who is pulling them, it’s all about endurance to exercise. If you’ve got plenty of strength in your muscles, you may be there for some time before you feel discomfort. Some people also suffer from neck injuries or poor muscles there due to any reason. You’ll be feeling it more quickly. Thus, it’s important to help people become aware that they are in that situation and then say Hey, what do I feel? They’ll instantly feel pressure, pain, or anything else.
However, for those who do not, this is the sign you need to be looking for. If you’re thinking I am, my neck is hurting and I’m not sure what’s wrong. It’s impossible to determine the cause. Then you think perhaps I’m sleeping funny. Did I slip and fall? Did I carry something heavy? But you cannot connect actions with the situation. Another thing you want to know is that on weekends, I feel better or on my days off I feel more relaxed. I noticed this after patients would call in and simply tell me these exact details. I don’t know the reason, or why I’m more relaxed on weekends. Then I realized that it’s all statistically. What you do with your time is the place you’re placing your stress. That’s why the first place I look for. What are you spending your time doing the most, John? You, in the daytime. What are you doing the majority of the day?
John Horton:
The screen of my computer on my smartphone, yes.
Dr. Bang:
Then the second or the third, when it’s a computer, the phone, as the third factor for a person is their car. It is possible that they have poor head position when driving. Another thing that people spend the most time in the time of sleeping is. We discuss neck pain but the thoughts are based on the place you spend the majority of your time. Typically, when you’re not sure of what you did, and that’s the solution. This is why I try to educate people that If you’re experiencing neck pain or neck back pain or shoulder tightness What do you spend most of the day doing? This is what we should to look at.
John Horton:
It’s good to know that you’re looking for answers. This brings our attention to the following question that is, what do you suggest doing to treat neck pain if you’re starting to notice these signs or experiencing pains?
Dr. Bang:
That’s right, of course you can avail the services for physical therapy chiropractic and your regular physician. These are fantastic options. However, if you’re ready to start. you set your appointments for about two or three weeks in advance before you’re able to actually make it to the clinic or even just a few days. Get started today. You can begin this second now, by doing certain things to feel better. We mentioned this on another podcast We and you often joke about the quote: motion is like lotion. That’s huge. Your body loves movement, and your body enjoys a different kinds of motion. When we notice that they’re hurting because they’re on their cell computer or phone, we’ve have to alter that by moving them or by creating a the possibility of variety. So, if you’ve got an office that is standing it’s time to utilize this more often. You’re probably not making use of it often enough since when you stand and sit in a sitting position, the body’s muscles to shift since you’re moving from a downward position to an up.
If you own mobile phone it’s about changing the position of it from being on my lap, to the point where you’re putting it on your face. This means that your head is straight. What I usually do so that to not turn into having shoulder issues when I hold my phone up and then resting my torso on my belly and then put my arm that holds my phone as well as my elbow on the arm, so that I don’t need to do much work, aside from the fact that things are resting on top of each other. However, my phone is directly before my head.
John Horton:
It makes sense to be sure to do it and ensure that your head stays straight. You just have the 10-to-12-pound weight in the air.
Dr. Bang:
However, even when you’ve got the best posture, people will often inquire, “hey what’s the best posture to attain? It doesn’t exist. The ideal posture is one that moves. Therefore, it is possible to achieve optimal positions, such as when you’re in front of your computer with the screen extremely high. Actually, the suggestion is to cut the screen into three pieces and I’m talking about three segments as three horizontal sections, as if one were to look at only the highest of the screen. the bottom part that is the highest third will be where ergonomic experts, or specialists, suggest the eyes to rest as this is where we experience the most relief on our necks due to that. So, you have your computer’s screen set, and you go through that. If you aren’t moving regardless of whether you’re sitting perfectly at work You’ll experience discomfort.
This is setting your screen and set up your tablets and set your phone up. If you’re driving I’ve seen people who maintain their heads in a tack and resting their head a little against the headrest until their heads are over their shoulders. However, you need to be able to move your body a bit better otherwise you’ll face the same issue with perfect posture. Quote and unquote perfect posture.
John Horton:
Definitely. One thing I’ve learned and we’ve talked about this during our many conversations for a while, is taking breaks. Do you have to turn off your phone at least once every so often? Do you recommend that?
Dr. Bang:
Yeah. That’s why I speak about being pragmatic. Change what you are able to change and what you are unable to alter, don’t stress about, basically. If you must make use of your mobile phone at work, then you’ve have to be inventive and raise your arm and using your right arm for 30 minutes or 20 minutes while resting.
John Horton:
Cross-training.
Dr. Bang:
Yes. You can switch it to the left. Cross-training, exactly. You could also you can do email talk in text rather than writing it out. This means that you can talk through the bulk of your emails. And when you try to make edits, it’s writing a few words, but it believed you wrote something and then it did a completely different thing. Right?
John Horton:
Everyday it happens. Yeah.
Dr. Bang:
Set your phone to the speaker instead of crimping the phone constantly to side. Make use of headphones to ensure that you’re able to listen and instead of keeping your phone on the right side which causes tension and discomfort the phone is now directly in front of your face because you’re wearing headphones or a speaker. It’s very basic.
So, we have this class on pain at our clinic, in which we have around 10 students who come in and we have six weeks of various subjects. And I’m among the weeks. We arrive and patients suffer from common chronic pain and we review these diverse aspects of their lives including sleeping, use of cell phones automobile use and so on. It’s amazing to me. People experience those light bulb moments when they’re thinking, what? It’s really that simple? It is indeed not that difficult, but it’s becoming aware of what I doing, and what could be changed to make it easier but still be effective? For once, I’m not able to be the same as John Yes, you should put down your computer. I’m sure you’ll find your work to appreciate this.
John Horton:
No, I’ll try. I had hoped for an appointment with a doctor that said I’m required to take an hour or so off each day, but that’s probably not going to occur.
Dr. Bang:
Many have asked me to provide the same, and unfortunately, I’m unable to provide this. What could I do? teach them how to move and to be able to enjoy the variety. If you can manage to get those two things in your life at any time then you’ll be able to evaluate the most beneficial thing to do to do here. Because I’m not able keep track of you as often as I’d like to. I’m sure that does not sound snooty or anything however, I will be sure to follow you around and say John Don’t do that. John Do this. Do a self-evaluation. Do I need to move? Are I stuck in this position for some time? Do my movements seem to be variety full? Is it different? Or am I experiencing this strain repetitively that’s getting injured?
John Horton:
When we talk about When we chat. Bang, I’m always surprised by the way we deal with complex issues such as these aches and discomforts, and how the solutions appear so simple in the way you describe the causes. Also, is there do you have anything else you would like to add? Or what else would people need to know be thinking about, if they truly want to gain something of this conversation, then what would it be?
Dr. Bang:
I’d suggest that there’s an easy way to increase the variety of muscles when you’re suffering from discomfort. Because there’s a lot to be said about this isn’t something we actually discuss things like”OK we’ll say you’ve got tech neck. We said you could create a variety of motion however I didn’t provide examples of how to achieve this. Let’s get started, John.
John Horton:
Let’s do it.
Dr. Bang:
Let’s look at some of the things you can do today, other than movement is lotion, and various. These are not just broad declarations. What is the actual meaning? Okay when it’s tight we’d like to expand it. In the event that it’s loose then we need to make it tighter. This means that there are muscles that you use when we sit, work on our computer, or make calls on our mobile phone and they become too tight, and others are overly stretched. As a rule thumb the sides and front neck muscles can become too tight. We need to stretch these. There’s an easy method to accomplish this. You just hold the edge from your seat. Join my friend, John. Do it.
John Horton:
I’m there. I’m there.
Dr. Bang:
You’ll then lean in the opposite direction to the edge of the seat on which you’re holding, keeping your head positioned straight.
John Horton:
Yeah. Wow.
Dr. Bang:
Then, to add more spice you should be looking upwards towards the ceiling and you’ll be able to feel it on the back of your neck.
John Horton:
I’m in need of stretching more I need to stretch more, I need to stretch more. Bang.
Dr. Bang:
Everyone does. It’s amazing. I am sure of it. This is so satisfying does it not? It’s all right. That’s why front and sides are both generally tight on the majority of us due to the fact that our heads are in the forward direction. This is known as the higher cross-syndrome. Our head is strained, and our head is too forward. The back muscles tend to get stretched. So, we’ve stretched. Oh, and as the rule of thumb stretching should be much longer than you think they are. There’s a research study that suggests two minutes for each muscle group. Yes, I know it’s crazy. It’s been a long time.
John Horton:
Yeah. I’m happy when I reach 30 seconds. Two minutes?
Dr. Bang:
I’m sure. A majority of people will do five and then they’re finished. So, you should strive to reach the 30-45-second mark. Be sure to work towards two minutes. However, you’ll need to stretch your tight muscles. Then those that are weak are stretched too much, such as the neck muscles in the back when we stretch them forward you’re already stretching something which is stretched out. Therefore, we need to strengthen it. We’ll do an isometric. With my head in a perfect position put the hands of my behind, and then interlace my fingers. Then am going to press back with my hands, and I’m going to push back using a significant amount of force.
John Horton:
Do you push back by putting your head into your hands?
Dr. Bang:
Yes. Do I push back the head of my body, then push forward using my hands. It’s obvious that your muscles become tighter, right?
John Horton:
Yeah.
Dr. Bang:
This is how you can create diversity and the way to create motion while not doing much movement even when you’re reading. It’s possible to do this while looking at an email. You can also do this when you’re in conference calls.
John Horton:
This can be done during a meeting.
Dr. Bang:
Exactly.
John Horton:
It appears that I’m thinking about something.
Dr. Bang:
That’s right.
John Horton:
You need to exert enough force. This is 60 percent, or 80 percent of your maximum capacity for muscle contraction to push the blood pumping through your muscles. Once you wake up your muscle and then tighten it back to where it was when it made loose. The muscles that become tighter are your triceps. Therefore, I’ll place my hands on the edge of my desk while I turn to stretch. It will feel extremely well.
John Horton:
It’s all right.
Dr. Bang:
You’re there. Feel it?
John Horton:
Yep. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Dr. Bang:
Okay. This one is huge. Another one that I find to be the one that is the largest. It’s the muscles that connect shoulders blades. Actually I’m not sure whether you’ve had this experience, but a few of your viewers have. It’s typically located on your right side. For for some, it’s left but it’s mostly right located in between the shoulder blades and spine. Some people say that they experience this strange sensation. It can be numb or itchy. Sometimes, it’s burning pain or an discomfort. This is caused by the muscle being stretched due to the fact that you’re extending your arm with your mouse all day long. These micro movements are what you’re doing.
What we need to do is perform a stretch that is a contraction on the shoulders’ muscles. Imagine that you’re trying to hold the pencil in between the shoulder blades. Then, you’ll would like to squeeze it to the point where you feel your muscles are about to be cramping, and you’ll sort of feel this cramp, which is what I prefer to refer to it as. Do not let it cramp however, keep pressing as hard as you think it’s going to.
John Horton:
Wow.
Dr. Bang:
The same thing happens. It is important to work towards the 30-second mark. The 60 second mark is the best of these contractions. Also, you need to stretch the tight areas and tighten up what is stretched too much or loose.
John Horton:
“Dr. Bang, I’m going to discuss all this during my next team meeting.
Dr. Bang:
Nice.
John Horton:
and I’ll be sharing your wisdom.
Dr. Bang:
Thanks.
John Horton:
Thank you so thanks for being here today. It’s always wonderful to have guests like you here on our show. I’m excited to welcome you back.
Dr. Bang:
Thank you for your kindness, John, take it easily.
John Horton:
The main point to learn from today’s show is to pay focus on how you’re looking at your phone and the amount of time you’re spending using it. If you don’t, you could be using the phone to contact the doctor. Bang for an appointment. So until next time, stay good.
Speaker 3
Thank you for tuning in to Health Essentials, brought to you by Cleveland Clinic and Cleveland Clinic Children’s. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, or visit Cleveland clinic.org/hepodcast. This podcast is meant for informational purposes only, and is not meant to substitute for the advice of your doctor.
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